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webwolf1

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#21 [url]

Mar 31 12 6:52 PM

PLEASE Let me also exstend my deep felt sorrow for your loss ,and I'M also convinced that it being a inccident that should never have happened only adds to the greif of this terrible tragedy. I must say hearing of this not only hurts my heart, but also scares the living helll out of me to think that there are so many health professionals out there that are either so Ignorant about the drug Methadone, or because of the on-going stigma that surrounds this drug , They might not even care.. i Cringe when I think that I along with Thousands of other mmt patients that are just one uncounsous  trip away from being delivered into the hands of such gross stupidy in the closest emergency room to us. I HOPE, and PRAY, that everybody that dropped the ball in your sons case will be held accountable, and made an example out of !!!!, My God Something has to give, and something has to change.to stop this kind of insainty, so for starters your sons death will not be in vain, and to keep this kind of nightmare from happening again. Like another poster wrote, I really wish I could take away your pain, ,I cant do that but I can remember you in my Prayers, and please know you are deeply cared about and supported by alot of people on this site, and others that hear of your loss !!! Please keep us up to speed on what happens, and again I am truly very very sorry !!!!.................Sincerly........Web Wolf

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baodai

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#22 [url]

Mar 31 12 8:01 PM

I'm very sorry for your loss.  I would strongly suggest you retain an experienced medical malpractice attorney.  It does not sound as if your son needed to die from his decisions.

Selah,

Bao Dai

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katyrae2

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#23 [url]

Mar 31 12 10:38 PM

      Off topic one second, but it is very hard to OD on methadone once stabilized on a blocking dose or relatively high dose. I know I could easily quadruple my dose and not worry one bit about OD'ing, not saying that it's safe, but from what I know and have experienced myself, I would not even think about OD unless something else was in the mix.

@katyrae...I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how hard this must be. Losing your own son..I can't even begin to imagine it. There has been so many times where I should have or could have died and my mom not even know about it for days...I can't imagine the pain she would go through, yet you are experiencing this pain.
It sounds to me like the kid he got it from IS on a methadone CLINIC. Not getting it from a doctor for pain. Which is kind of weird because most street methadone is coming from pain patients, in pill form, so for him to be offered it from a clinic patient I find kind of weird...Not saying that people who goto clinics don't sell their methadone, but usually it is 'unseen' or to a close friend / fellow addict who maintains on it on the street. Seems to me like the kid just offered it right up for free..which again is weird.
80-90mg is a very strong dose for a non tolerant person and even for a tolerant opioid user (unless an MMT patient) due to methadone not producing a full cross tolerance between other opioids. If I were you I would look into filing a suit or something against this hospital, a member here, Chris Kelly or Zenith, Momo (if you're out there) could direct you to better sources than I could for going about this.
I would assume that if someone shows up in a hospital for an opioid OD that the staff would have to follow a procedure NO MATTER WHAT and I would think that procedure would include a shot of Narcan.
Now the scary part with methadone and people who try to abuse it is the fact that methadones serum levels keep rising in the body. So at the 2hr mark after taking it, he gets a shot of narcan, is sent home and 6 hours later dies because the methadone is just now peaking in his body.
I wish I could help more or do something...I can't even begin to fathom the agony you are going through. Stay strong in this and let that be what pushes you to educate others and most of all get back at that hospital for what they did to your son. It would have been different if he never went to the hospital, but he did, and the hospital did little to nothing for him to protect him or make the situation any bit better. Any trained professional knows to NEVER 'sleep off' a drug overdose, especially with methadone.
Also I would be willing to bet the lorazepam played a part in it too, only as an additive effect because 80-90mg of methadone would put any non tolerant person under alone. Do you know if he possibly took any of his anxiety meds between 4-10am?

-whiterobot122

When he was still in the hospital (they had told me they were keeping him atleast 72hrs because they werent sure he tried hurting himself because he took so much) me and my son went home to change clothes and check on things before coming back, when i got home I went straight to his room to look for his bottle of benzos but could not find it anywhere, the morning he died the detective found the bottle in his middle drawer where I had checked the day before and it was empty, I know he got rid of half the bottle, it was the lowest dose they can give you, little white pills, tiny things, I was very mad at his dr for even prescribing them to him, i think he could have learned how to get thru his anxiety attacks without resorting to medication, she gave him 90 pills but the the pharmacist said no I can only give you 60 for 30 days.  I talked this over with his brother who shared a double room with his brother and asked him if he thought he took any pills when he came home and he said, i dont see how he could have, he was so out tired and sleepy and plus I told him when i dropped him off "if you have any of those pills please give them to me, do not take them because taking them together is dangerous" and he said he didnt have any more, and he also asked me, "mom how long is this stuff gonna last, i cant stand feeling this way, i can barely keep my eyelids open" I told him you'll probably feel like this until tomorrow, god if Id only known, finding my son, my baby, like that has changed me forever, Im mad at the paramedics and the ER dr and nurses for doing nothing to save his life, taking him to the ER thats what I thought I was doing.... My life changed forever the day my son died, still cannot believe it.  Id love to be a spokes person for this, kids these days just dont realise how short life can be, how in a blink of an eye it can all change, not just for you but for everyone.  I miss him every second of the day, we have detectives working on the case, they will file charges once we have the reports back.  I dont think he would have taken anymore pills, I was told he did take some earlier that day, like 4 of the little ones, and thats why i was wanting to know if the methadone would have made him worse instead of better after so many hours....Whats really sad is he was under the impression they gave him something to reverse the methadone but it was only the IV saline solution they gave him, breaks my heart into a million pieces...

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katyrae2

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#24 [url]

Mar 31 12 10:52 PM

    This is disturbing, on so many levels. So much of this situation was preventable; the hospital let him die. Period. I am so sorry for your loss, and I feel your pain. I do not have children, but I do know the loss of a child is the worst pain a person can go through. When you add the fact that his death was very preventable into the equation, it's all the more painful. Your younger son is also in my thoughts; to be the one to find his brother......just horrific.
The hospital is at fault for this, without a doubt. If all of what you state is true (and I am not doubting that for a second), then someone needs to pay for this. Heads need to roll!
Also, the kid that gave your son that dose....he should also be held accountable. I hope he feels guilty. He should.
Again, I am so sorry for your loss. Even though I do not know you, my thoughts are with you and your family. Stick together, and gain strength from each other; that will get you through these dark hours.

-yvettejeannine


thank you so much, its been extremely hard, I have so many guilty feelings, I feel as though I let my son down, I let him go to sleep after ingesting this dangerous drug, had i been told to keep and eye on him watch him I wouldnt have gone to sleep but no one said a word, everything that occurred with this incident was weird, from the way the paramedics acted to the hospital staff to that little voice inside your head telling you somethings amiss, go check on him, go check on him, none of it was there, When i saw that one kid come into the ER with an overdose from heroin and was given narcan and he walked out of the hospital I get so angry knowing that my son would be here right now had the ER drs given him the narcan, I dont know where their minds were that morning, it breaks my heart, he had his whole life ahead of him, and he wasnt a kid who ran around doing all kinds of drugs, he had planns for his life, he was a good kid, I just dont understand, the detectives said the paramedics should have given him narcan on the scene and should have had him transported by ambulance instead of having me drive him in my truck, when i picked him up from the ER, my 16yr daughter was noticing how her brother was acting, still lethargic, still mumbling his words, still very pale skin, she asked the nurse, how longs my brother gonna stay like this and she replies " Im not sure, I dont know much about methadone"  it was crazy, I know I should have pushed for more answers but I trusted them, I never will again. does methadone make you throw up and get naseated like that?

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katyrae2

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#25 [url]

Mar 31 12 11:06 PM

    PLEASE Let me also exstend my deep felt sorrow for your loss ,and I'M also convinced that it being a inccident that should never have happened only adds to the greif of this terrible tragedy. I must say hearing of this not only hurts my heart, but also scares the living helll out of me to think that there are so many health professionals out there that are either so Ignorant about the drug Methadone, or because of the on-going stigma that surrounds this drug , They might not even care.. i Cringe when I think that I along with Thousands of other mmt patients that are just one uncounsous  trip away from being delivered into the hands of such gross stupidy in the closest emergency room to us. I HOPE, and PRAY, that everybody that dropped the ball in your sons case will be held accountable, and made an example out of !!!!, My God Something has to give, and something has to change.to stop this kind of insainty, so for starters your sons death will not be in vain, and to keep this kind of nightmare from happening again. Like another poster wrote, I really wish I could take away your pain, ,I cant do that but I can remember you in my Prayers, and please know you are deeply cared about and supported by alot of people on this site, and others that hear of your loss !!! Please keep us up to speed on what happens, and again I am truly very very sorry !!!!.................Sincerly........Web Wolf

-webwolf1


again thank you for caring, its been a very difficult time, and knowing it was preventable, an easy easy fix for my son and yet somehow it wasnt fixed at all just kills me inside, when i hear my son ask the nurse, "so its ok if I go home and go to sleep"  it just feels like someones putting a knife into my heart and twisting it over and over, this should neever have happened, and I pray it never does again but when an ER dr asks me, how much is he normally prescribed? and his answer he receives is, "he isnt prescribed this, hes NEVER taken methadone before, someone gave it to him" that right there should have been enough to get moving, give him atleast 4-5shots of narcan spread out over 4-5hrs and kept him for atleast 36hrs but none of that was done and this is suppose to be one of our best hospitals but like you said, maybe they just dont care anymore, its how it seemed to me, they were all smiling when they first came into his room, once I mentioned methadone, the smile went right off their faces and the demeanor changed, it sickened me....and I will do everything in my human power to make sure his death is not in vain and everyone involved in his death from start to finish is held criminally liable for it....thanks for your kind words, it helps knowing others care....God bless you.

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katyrae2

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#26 [url]

Mar 31 12 11:17 PM

    oh my Katy I didnt realize when i first started reading this that it was your son you were referring to..My lord I am SOOOO sorry for your loss.. This is soo awful mainly because all the way around it was preventable... For one if it was the parents of his friends meds then they should have done a better job of having them secured away from sticky hands..if it was the friends then as mmt patients which obviously it was a clinic patients meds being it was in seperate bottles(and also it sounds like either more than 1pts or someone on a split dose since there were 2 different mg on the different bottles) that person if a clinic patient should have 1) known better than  to give his medicine away ESPECIALLY to someone that doesnt take pain meds and honestly should be held responsible for their part in your sons death.. Then you get to the hospital which should KNOW better than to do NOTHING to treat an opiate overdose but give IV fluids and an antinausea shot(which if it was phenerghan would have INCREASED the sedation) for an opiate naive person to be released 6hrs later with no intervention is crazy.. At the least there should have been a 24hr observation for him with the knowledge of how methadone works..  i dont know what else to say.. I am soo sorry.. I wish i had some magic words that would take away some of your pain but i dont.. I would definately be suing the hospital and looking for charges on the person who gave him the methadone.. You were violated in the worst way but ppl you should have been able to trust.. There usually is NO reason for a non medical person not to trust that the treatment the hospital is giving and the for home instructions arent whats right...  Please Please keep us updated on how things go with this.. and I pray that you turn this into a positive in ur sons memory by working on ways to educate ppl to prevent this from happening again..
Hugs and Prayers for you and your family....

-briton32


thank you, id love to be able to do something so no other child has to die, right now Im grieving, its hard to know how to live a new "me" when your use to having your son in your life day and night for 21yrs, this has been a terrible shock to me and his family and his friends, I think the kid who gave him this stuff is one who buys all kinds of different drugs, my son didnt know him and he was just someone who showed up with another friend of the friends who my son did know, my son said the kid was giving others pain pills, oxycontins i think, its horrible how this stuff is so easy for them to get their hands on and yet they dont know how dangerous it can be if abused and not prescribed to them, its so sad, I hope the word does get back to this kid that my son died from his stuff he was handing out, he might of been having them pay for some of it I dont know for sure but if we can find him then hes in trouble...as is the hospital and er drs and paramedics, they said his vitals were ok so they saw no reason to take him by ambulance but i told him he swallowed 80-90mgs of methadone about 40minutes ago, and you could already see the affects it was having on him, when he was in the hospital i took pictures of him and loooking at them its obvious he was overdosed by the medicine, my son and his friend also video taped him to show him what he looked like and the detectives are using  these in the report , theyre going to want to know why he was ever released in that condition.  the  worst thing about all this is I cant go back and undo anything...cant go back, its too late, my son  is gone.  The nausea medicine they gave him was zofran andd he did say it made him eveen more sleepy...

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ccourtneymac

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#27 [url]

Apr 1 12 3:59 AM

 does methadone make you throw up and get naseated like that?

-katyrae2

The first opioid I started taking was methadone, but for recreational purposes, about 10 mgs.  I vomited like there was no tomorrow.  The street term for this is "flashing."  After I got acclimated to the methadone, the nausea and vomiting went away.

So, to answer your question, methadone absolutely can make a person vomit and nauseous.  

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whiterobot122

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#28 [url]

Apr 1 12 9:34 AM

yes a common side effect of too much of an opioid is nausea and vomiting. I know it's hard for you at this point to not be angry at the world, but methadone didn't choose to kill him, ya know? The fact of the STUPID friend who gave it to him and the fact of not knowing anything about it is what killed him. I would look at this differently if the friend said "hey heres 15mg, you don't want to take this with anything else and it will help the pain." but no he just handed him these bottles thinking it was OK. methadone is very safe when used properly, therapeutically, when abused though it is NOT forgiving.

Narcan isn't always the answer either though to a methadone overdose, this could have still happened if he was given narcan. Due to methadone's long half life he could have been given a shot of narcan 10 hours after ingesting the methadone, and died after being released from the hospital due to methadone peaking in the system again and the narcan wearing off.

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sapphire76

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#29 [url]

Apr 2 12 3:55 AM

Katy, I'm so sorry for your loss.

This was not your fault, you did nothing wrong. The hospital are at fault for not keeping him on the hospital and monitoring his vital signs.

Are the detectives looking into who gave your son the methadone?

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mike75

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Posts: 660 Member Since:03/25/12

#30 [url]

Apr 2 12 4:24 AM

Same here...Katy sorry for your loss.I'd definitely be looking into doing something as far as that hospital goes because they are responsible and at fault because they did not keep him at the hospital and monitor his vital signs and keep him under observation until they were a hundred percent sure he was clear enough to be released to go home.You also need the police to find this person who gave your son the methadone.This person more than likely might've got it or bought it from someone else because obviously the person who gave your son methadone were not educated enough to know how dangerous it is to give a non tolerant person this medication.Many mistakes were made but they also need to find the person the methadone belongs to and that person needs to be strictly punished for giving their meds away and that person and that persons clinic needs to know the dose was not only sold or given away but it also killed a person.Also the hospital should've followed procedures better and done more to know that they should not have let this person go home in the condition or state the person was in at that given time.He was released way too soon and not enough was done to properly see that he would make it through the ordeal he was suffering through.

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ptrsnake13

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#32 [url]

Apr 2 12 7:56 AM

If you're talking about Katy's loss, I don't understand someone giving away 2 bottles of 30, and then one for 100. There has to be more to the story that this poor woman isn't aware of because being on a program, most people know how much a vigin should take. All in all it's just a damn shame for her.

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whippy witch

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#33 [url]

Apr 2 12 10:49 AM

Katyrae2,

I have to agree with yvettejeannine.  I am sorry for your Loss.  You did everything right.  The errors lay directly with the hospital, and with the person who gave him the medication.  All this other information you are seeing about being on a tolerant dose has to do with patients currently on Methadone that are tolerant to a higher dose because of previous opiate abuse / dependence.  That is where it gets confusing. Your post ask for clarification on one point and it went off the rails when someone said something to the affect "This is why I want to lower my dose".  

On the bottles give out as "carry doses of medication" it clearly states that this medication is intended for use ONLY by the person it is prescribed to" there are many different types of warning lables but USUALLY all methadone carry medication has at least this on it.  

Again my sympathies and heart go to you in your time of pain.

WW

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maronne

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#34 [url]

Apr 2 12 12:19 PM

Katy - OMG!  My heart goes out to you immensely!!!!  Please know that it was NOT YOUR FAULT that your poor dear son died.  You did everything right!  The hospital's actions (or rather, "inactions") are absolutely HORRIFYING!

Katy - do you have any support right now?  I really hope you can find compassionate and empathetic and helpful people to help you with your grief.  God be with you!

My deepest condolences,
Maronne

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ccourtneymac

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#35 [url]

Apr 3 12 4:21 AM




(now he thought the 30mgs would be the entire bottle filled up he didnt realise that tiny amount actually WAS 30mgs) 

-katyrae2


How do you know this, btw?  Are you on methadone or do you have some sort of experience with methadone beyond this situation? 

Then you state that he got the methadone from a random dude that happened to be at your son's friends house at the same time as your son.  So this random dude just carries around three bottles of methadone on his person when about town? 

 I had really hoped that people would behave in a more responsible fashion than walking around with their methadone on 'em.  I had HOPED that people take their medicine home and store it appropriate to their situation.  I am so afraid of getting my stuff ripped off that I keep it stashed and locked in my apartment.

This is NOT an indictment, this are just questions that we am curious to know...anytime a youngster dies it is a tragedy, no matter the circumstances.  We are just trying to understand how this could happen so we can hopefully prevent this from happening to someone else!  We had a gal on here not too long ago, and her kid got a hold of her methadone.  He passed away, too.  What a heartbreak for all concerned. :-(

Hang in there, Ms. Katyrae.

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sapphire76

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#36 [url]

Apr 3 12 5:57 AM

    I have to wonder about a person on a clinic that can so freely give away approximately 80 mgs. with no problem.

-ccourtneymac

I know, I was thinking that too.

Personally I wouldn't give anyone my medication, I need every last bit of it, and I certainly wouldn't give methadone to an opiate naive kid, that is just plain dumb.

I hope you are seeking medical malpractice advice Katy, and that you are getting the support you need to deal with your loss.

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katyrae2

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#37 [url]

Apr 3 12 5:07 PM

    I have to wonder about a person on a clinic that can so freely give away approximately 80 mgs. with no problem.

-ccourtneymac

I honestly dont believe the kid who was handing or sharing this methadone was his, from what I gathered later it was a kid that is known to buy many different types of drugs or who knows maybe even steals it, Ive heard kids before talking about how they sneak their grandmothers pain pills out of her medicine cabnit or purse maybe thats what he did idk.  Its really sad that this can happen but what Im concernd with is how my son was given this so easily and how the hospital did nothing, my son died from it when he didnt need to, before leaving to the ER I googled methadone to see what it was and what it can do to someone but I didnt read much, just saw it was dangerous to a nonopiate dependent person and out he door we went. I  dont believe the methadone belonged to this kid but where he got it from that I dont know but wish I did!! 

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katyrae2

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#38 [url]

Apr 3 12 5:18 PM

   
I know, I was thinking that too.
Personally I wouldn't give anyone my medication, I need every last bit of it, and I certainly wouldn't give methadone to an opiate naive kid, that is just plain dumb.
I hope you are seeking medical malpractice advice Katy, and that you are getting the support you need to deal with your loss.

-sapphire76

I do know some things about drugs as Ive had family members who had drug problems not with opiates but other drugs and I think that when theyre really out on their drug I dont think theyre thinking clearly so they might hand out their medication though I cant say for sure as i dont know anything about this only what Ive now read on the internet and believe me Ive read so much regarding this drug since my son died, I understand its dangerous only when abused or not used according to its purpose as is any drug I suppose, its saved many peoples lifes Im sure, I just wish kids now a days would stop and think about what they are doing, what theyre putting in their bodies, taking something not prescribed to them is dangerous but you know kids they think they are invincible and nothings going to happen to them, sadly we know thats not the case.  Yes we have contacted a medical malpractice lawyer, were just waiting on his autopsy and toxicology reports to come back, the attorney says if it comes back with methadone in it hes filing suit as is the detectives who are on the case, they havent asked much about where the methadone has come from but I gave her all the information I had so Im hopefully they will find the kid whose also responsible for giving it to my son. Im corresponding with a few women who also lost their sons and Ive joined a group of parents whose lost their children and Ive got support at home plus my son had alot of great friends who come by daily, its been helpful for us all. 

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ptrsnake13

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#39 [url]

Apr 3 12 5:27 PM

I don't understand. if you don't think the methadone belonged to that kid it sounds like you may know him or something about him. If so, why not go straight to him and find out where it came from. In some states you can be held manslaughter or worse for giving someone a deadly dose of narcotics. Try to find out who's it was exactly and/or the program it came from. It sounds to me, and this is just my opinion, that you may have a lot of options in getting to the bottom of this. Just knowing the house he was in is a huge start to get some answers. If the police don't help then get a P.I. I bet he can find out all you need to know in 2 or 3 days. Sneaking pills is one thing but having liquid methadone means it came from a program. They're the only places with liquid. I'm sure these kids, especially if they're on drugs, would start flapping their gums very quickly with a minimum amount of pressure. I would let nothing stop me until I got satisfactory answers. Good luck and again, my condolences.
Pete

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katyrae2

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#40 [url]

Apr 3 12 5:52 PM

   

How do you know this, btw?  Are you on methadone or do you have some sort of experience with methadone beyond this situation? 
Then you state that he got the methadone from a random dude that happened to be at your son's friends house at the same time as your son.  So this random dude just carries around three bottles of methadone on his person when about town? 
 I had really hoped that people would behave in a more responsible fashion than walking around with their methadone on 'em.  I had HOPED that people take their medicine home and store it appropriate to their situation.  I am so afraid of getting my stuff ripped off that I keep it stashed and locked in my apartment.
This is NOT an indictment, this are just questions that we am curious to know...anytime a youngster dies it is a tragedy, no matter the circumstances.  We are just trying to understand how this could happen so we can hopefully prevent this from happening to someone else!  We had a gal on here not too long ago, and her kid got a hold of her methadone.  He passed away, too.  What a heartbreak for all concerned. :-(
Hang in there, Ms. Katyrae.

-ccourtneymac


If I had any experience with methadone then Id probably know enough to demand narcan be given to my son, if I knew anything about how it works or what its for Id know my son shouldnt go to sleep after having taken that much, Im only going by what my son told me and what others that were there told me, I had spoke with  someone whose an older gentlemen and he told me a little information about methadone but no i dont take it and I dont have any close experience with it, I honestly wish I did then Id known how to save my son!!  My son kept saying the label said 30mgs on it, but it hardly had any in the bottle mom, its was just a tiny amount in the bottle it wasnt a full bottle, dont worry mom Ill be alright is what he kept saying to me, now after the fact, after hes gone, this gentlemen well hes a neighborhood friend knows my sons he stopped by to give his condolences and we started talking about it, i told him what had happened and what my son had said and he mentioned to me that 30mgs wouldnt be that much actually and it wouldnt fill a whole bottle like my son thought it would, its just a very sad siutation, I dont know why this kid was carrying around three bottles of someone else methadone, or why anyone would be carrying around methadone like that, Im sure thats not all he was carrying on him, i dont see this kid as one having a good character, he wasnt just a kid coming over to visit friends and decides to bring along three bottles of methadone,he was friends with one of the kids there and I was told brought other stuff too, guess he thought he was going to a party.  Whats odd is this kid also took some of the methadone or what was left in the bottle from the 100mg (does it really come in that high mgs?)  I was going to contact poison control center to ask my questions but found this website and thought id try here first. 
 hopefully when the reports come back I'll have some answers to these very questions.  I pray I do, I dont want any other mother to ever go through what Im going through now. I dont understand my son said this was liquid he swallowed but all I read about online are methadone pills and Im not sure what mmt is?  I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy, I thought I was saving my son, if id known anything at all about this medication I might of been able to have saved my kid.....God how I wish.   However I cant imagine how that women must have felt knowing her son got into her medication and passed from it, my heart goes out to her, I feel guilty because I didnt get up during the night an check on my son but boy I would have if Id known what I know now.  I dont know who Im more mad at, my son for taking it, the kid who carelessly gave it out or the hospital for doing nothing to save his life.............

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