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katyrae2

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Mar 29 12 10:34 PM

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I need to know if someone whose never taken methadone before, theyre not opiate tolerant but they swallow 80mg of methadone at 11:30pm on a Saturday night , taken to the ER, no narcan given, no pumping stomach just monitored for 6hrs then sent home at 10:30am Sunday with instructions to sleep it off, they sleep off and on throughout Sunday begin to vomit, get dry heaves and continue to be sleepy, they finally fall asleep somewhere in the early morning hours of Monday and pass away in their sleep, my question Im trying to find out but cant seem to is will the methadone increasingly get worse as the hours go by or should it have been better 24hrs later?  Any one knows the answer to this please let me know, I cant find anything about it on the internet.  thank you so much for any help!! 

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robinette

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Mar 30 12 12:28 AM

yes VERY possible to die - bad instruction to sleep it off - anyone not tolerant to opiates should NEVER take methadone. are you saying the ER said to sleep it off and they KNEW it was methadone??????
yes, methadone continues to get worse in someone who is NOT TOLERANT - even an overdose in some one reasonably tolerant can happen because of it long half life - meaning HALF the dose is still available in 24-36 hours.


Robin Robinette

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sapphire76

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#2 [url]

Mar 30 12 4:41 AM

It is very possible for an opiate naive person to die from 80mgs! As methadone has such a long half life this could happen many hours after actually ingesting the medication.

IIRC, even 50mg can be lethal for an opiate naive person.

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ccourtneymac

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Mar 30 12 6:29 AM

You bet your *** it can!  Heck, to an opiate naive person, as little as 10-20 mgs. and it can be gone, baby, gone.

@Katy, the hospital was informed that the patient had taken 80 mgs. of methadone that was not opiate tolerant?  That they sent this person home knowing that - it seems very very odd to me.

I would be more shocked to hear that it didn't kill them!  Methadone is a drug that has some very unique pharmacokinetic properties that make it EXTREMELY dangerous to those that are not well-acclimated to it.

Do you know if this was a suicide attempt?  Or someone was just trying to get high?  Or a child thought it was Kool-Aid?  I do not understand why this was done.

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ptrsnake13

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#4 [url]

Mar 30 12 8:57 AM

First time I took methadone, and I was heroin addicted at the time, I took 35 mgs. I was unbelievably stoned. Next day at work I had to leave at lunch because I was still high. 80 mgs! No narcan or stomache pump? Sleep it off/ Were they nuts?? I know it won't ease the pain but I'd try to sue everyone connected with this incident. I gave a friend 10 mgs once and it almost did him in. The E R janitor would've probably given better advice about what to do. The ultimate worse is Sleep it Off? On your stomach? Back? Side? What if you throw up in your sleep. Stop breathing. this is hard to believe though I believe it fully. Sorry for your lose.
Pete

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zenith

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Mar 30 12 9:47 AM

A dose of 30 mgs of less is enough to kill a grown adult who is not opioid tolerant. EASILY. The dose of methadone for non tolerant patients taking it for acute pain is 5 to 10 mgs. and even that dose combined with something like benzodiazepines, alcohol, other opiates, etc can kill in combination. 

Narcar only knocks the opiates off the receptors for a few hours at most--but methadone remains active in your system in some degree for 72 hours, meaning that after the narcan wears off, the methadone effects can come back and kill. The patient must be CAREFULLY observed for several days and given extra doses as needed. They should not be allowed to go to sleep without being observed. 

Question Authority!

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whiterobot122

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#6 [url]

Mar 30 12 9:49 AM

Sorry I didn't get to read all this, but yes, they have a HIGH risk of dying. 30mg to a non tolerant person can put the under. If I were you I would monitor them VERY closely and have 911 ready to be called. This is very dangerous.

Also, serum methadone levels take around 6-7 hours to peak, so it only gets worse with time. Around the 36 hour mark they should be improving, but I doubt it if they ingested 80mg.

that hospital should be sued for malpractice.

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cherbear

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Mar 31 12 6:34 AM

Kylea-you should not be afraid-it sounds like the person they are referencing is not opiate tolerant  or under an doctors care where as you are. 

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chriskelly

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Mar 31 12 6:37 AM

Exactly Kylea.  If you are already tolerant to methadone it is almost impossible to OD on it alone.

I have seen people with a daily methadone dose of 100mgs take 1000mgs and all they do is get really sleepy, and then sleep it off. 

It is very rare that an methadone tolerant person ODs on methadone alone.  Now mix with benzo's and/or alcohol and thats another thing entirely.

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katyrae2

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#10 [url]

Mar 31 12 7:23 AM

It was my 21 yr old son, he rode skateboards and the night before this happened he was at the skatepark and one of the other riders accidentally ran over his ankle, so that next day which was a Saturday his ankle was hurting pretty bad, he was over at a friends house where a bunch of kids had gathered, one of them heard him complaining of his ankle and told him he had pain medication that would help him, my son is usually very smart about not taking others meds or not taking something he doesnt know anything about, so I dont understand why he ignored his instinct this time, he said the kid gave him two bottles but it only had a small amount in the bottle, the label said 30mg (now he thought the 30mgs would be the entire bottle filled up he didnt realise that tiny amount actually WAS 30mgs) he swallowed two of the bottles and then I guess the kid had opened up another bottle that had a label reading 100mg and he took a swig out of that one, came home and went to his room to lay down, I came home after being out with friends , went to his room to say goodnight and noticed his face was pale white, his muscle looked very laxed and he was scratching himself like crazy, I asked what the heck was wrong with him and he told me, I got on the internet and googled it, read that 30mg could kill a nontolerant person so I told him, why in gods name would u do something like that, he got scared called the paramedics, they came, asked him how long ago he had taken it and he replied about 40 mins, they took his vitals which turned out ok but by this time he couldnt even stand up, he had to sit down and when they tried getting him to sign the release so they didnt have to call an ambulance out he couldnt even hold the pen, he was nodding out they kept having to wake him up, he finally just drew a line where his name was suppose to go, I then rushed him straight to the hospital, me and my 18yr old son, when we came in he could hardly stand, they brought him a wheelchair, I told them he took atleast 60mg that i know of, when the dr came in I repeated that, and then my son interupted me and said "no he took more like 80-90mgs plus his anxiety medication, lorazapam, he had a prescription for those, the dr asked me "well how much is he normally prescribed of the methadone?" and I said loud and clear, " hes not prescribed methadone only the anxiety medication, he was given this by some kid while he was over at his friends house, hes never taken this before"  so the dr asked Jesse why he had taken this and Jesse said, for pain they said it was for pain"  they hooked him up to iv and did an EKG on him and monitored him, they released him at 9:30am that very morning we had gone in about 2:00am no doctor gave me any discharge instructions, the nurse came back in and my son asked her, its ok if I go home and go to sleep and she says, oh sure you can go home and sleep, your gonna be fine, then I also asked her, your sure hes ok, he can fall asleep, cause i dont want to wake up find my son gone, she said, yeah he'll be ok, he just needs to sleep it off"  so I took him home, he asked me to get him pepto bismol and milk because his stomach was hurting , he fell asleep off and on that day, he started throwing up later in the evening, I went to bed at 10:00, checked on him at 8:30pm and he was still awake but seemed very tired, my other son and his friend were in the room and went to bed at 4:30, my son was still talking, asking for things, when my younger son got up at 10:00am he noticed my son hadnt moved from the same spot, he was gone, died somewhere between 4:30am -10:00am, the hospital did nothing for him, no narcan no stomach pumping, I just dont understand it, had I been told to keep an eye on him and dont let him fall asleep if he seems sleepy, or is snoring funny or making weird nosies i would have made him stay with me in my room, i would have gotten up and checked on him every hour on the hour, but all i was told was he needs to sleep it off.  I just didnt know if this stuff could make him worse so much later on, why did the hospital even release him?  Im devastated my son had to die when he shouldnt have.

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ccourtneymac

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#11 [url]

Mar 31 12 7:26 AM

@Kylea, I took 1000 mgs. of 'done and felt nothing, but I definitely slept a lot longer than usual.  I second everyone else on here - the chance of you ODing on methadone alone once stable on your dose are about nonexistent.

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katyrae2

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#12 [url]

Mar 31 12 7:34 AM

The person Im referring to was my 21yr old son, and I say was because he did die, he died in his sleep after 28hrs of ingesting 80-90mgs of methadone.  The hospital i took him to did nothing for him but hook him up to an IV, gave him an EKG and gave him nausea medicine.  they kept him for about 6-7hrs then released him, he asked if the nurse if it was ok if he went to sleep when he got home, and she told him sure you can go to sleep, youll be fine, i asked her so your sure its ok if he goes to sleep because i dont wanna wake up and find my kid gone and she tells me, yeah he can go to sleep, he just needs to sleep it off, he'll be ok, well he wasnt ok, he died in his sleep and his little brother had to be the one to find him, he came and got me and I will never forget that my whole life, we are waiting on the toxicology report to come back, its been two months now, I googled methadone online but couldnt find much info on it as far as how it works, he seemed about 10% better when I picked him up from the hospital but then as the day went by he got worse, i had no idea hed get increasingly worse, if I had been warned on what to look for I wouldnt have gone to sleep all night, I just thought hed be really sleepy, tired and groggy never did I think my son would die in his sleep.  The hospital will be sued if his reports come back with the methadone in it, which of course its going to. 

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katyrae2

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#13 [url]

Mar 31 12 7:42 AM

yes I was told when they discharged my son all he needed was to sleep it off.. He died 28hrs later, they knew he had taken the methadone on top of his own prescription of lorazepan. they knew and yet they didnt even mention narcan, a week ago I had to take my 16yr old daughter to the ER for severe stomach pains while we were there the paramedics brought in a young kid who had overdosed on heroin, he was out like a light then come back too, the intake nurse asked them if they had given him narcan yet and they said they had given him 4 shots already, she tells them I want you to give him another shot of it and i want one of you to stay with him for the next 40 mins, do not leave him alone, at the end of our waiting in the ER were moved to this waiting room and there is the kid, hes up walking, talking, laughing, saying how hes gonna go ride his skateboard he had with him, skate right on outta the hospital, my daughter busted into to tears sayin that should have been her brother too, he should still be here riding his skateboard, its something i cant understand a hospital doing...

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katyrae2

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Mar 31 12 7:48 AM

thank you Pete, yes its hard to believe that a hospital would be so negligent but they were, I keep thinking there had to be some mistake made, maybe the wrong chart or the wrong blood work, i dont know, but i do know for a fact my son took atleast 60 mgs plus a swig from another bottle of 100mgs, so all together he swallowed atleast 80-90mgs, he was not tolerant to it, and he had been taking lorazepan for anxiety attacks, he had broken up with his gf of two years, high school sweethearts and he started having panic attacks so bad, the hospital was told all this and still no narcan or stoach pump, we are going to sue, the attornry is awaiting autopsy report and toxicology report, even the paramedics acted like it was no big deal except one, hes the one who advised me to take him the ER right away and do not wait but to go now, so I did and my son still died....

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katyrae2

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#15 [url]

Mar 31 12 7:51 AM

this post is referring to a person whose not tolerant on opiates of any kind, if youve been taking methadone already its not gonna do that to you so no need to worry just dont double dose, use common sense when it comes to taking your medication and you will be ok.

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whiterobot122

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#16 [url]

Mar 31 12 8:11 AM

Off topic one second, but it is very hard to OD on methadone once stabilized on a blocking dose or relatively high dose. I know I could easily quadruple my dose and not worry one bit about OD'ing, not saying that it's safe, but from what I know and have experienced myself, I would not even think about OD unless something else was in the mix.


@katyrae...I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how hard this must be. Losing your own son..I can't even begin to imagine it. There has been so many times where I should have or could have died and my mom not even know about it for days...I can't imagine the pain she would go through, yet you are experiencing this pain.

It sounds to me like the kid he got it from IS on a methadone CLINIC. Not getting it from a doctor for pain. Which is kind of weird because most street methadone is coming from pain patients, in pill form, so for him to be offered it from a clinic patient I find kind of weird...Not saying that people who goto clinics don't sell their methadone, but usually it is 'unseen' or to a close friend / fellow addict who maintains on it on the street. Seems to me like the kid just offered it right up for free..which again is weird.

80-90mg is a very strong dose for a non tolerant person and even for a tolerant opioid user (unless an MMT patient) due to methadone not producing a full cross tolerance between other opioids. If I were you I would look into filing a suit or something against this hospital, a member here, Chris Kelly or Zenith, Momo (if you're out there) could direct you to better sources than I could for going about this.

I would assume that if someone shows up in a hospital for an opioid OD that the staff would have to follow a procedure NO MATTER WHAT and I would think that procedure would include a shot of Narcan.

Now the scary part with methadone and people who try to abuse it is the fact that methadones serum levels keep rising in the body. So at the 2hr mark after taking it, he gets a shot of narcan, is sent home and 6 hours later dies because the methadone is just now peaking in his body.

I wish I could help more or do something...I can't even begin to fathom the agony you are going through. Stay strong in this and let that be what pushes you to educate others and most of all get back at that hospital for what they did to your son. It would have been different if he never went to the hospital, but he did, and the hospital did little to nothing for him to protect him or make the situation any bit better. Any trained professional knows to NEVER 'sleep off' a drug overdose, especially with methadone.

Also I would be willing to bet the lorazepam played a part in it too, only as an additive effect because 80-90mg of methadone would put any non tolerant person under alone. Do you know if he possibly took any of his anxiety meds between 4-10am?

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ccourtneymac

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Mar 31 12 8:20 AM


Katy, may I ask from who he obtained the methadone from?  I would be looking for their head on a silver platter.  If I could not get that, I would contact the police and have them investigate where the methadone came from.  Who would sell a 21 year-old kid without a habit methadone?  Someone very reckless, not the kind of person we want walking the streets.

Oh, I just read the post you had put up earlier about the circumstances.  I would be interested in filing suit against the parents who had inadvertently allowed unrestricted access to the methadone if it was theirs.  If it was his little buddies prescription, the parents still need to be sued in both civil and criminal court.  I hope your son's buddy realizes that he now has responsibility in the death of another human being.  I hope the other young men there that day take heed to one of the most valuable life lessons a person can learn:  DON'T DO DRUGS.

I find it odd that  hospital staff would not know about methadone and its extremely long half life, but I guess they aren't schooled in the science of addiction, either.  Is there a chance that he took more benzos when y'all got home from the hospital?

Thank you for clarifying your statement.  Your son passed away not from methadone alone, but methadone and benzos.

I am very sorry you lost your son.

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yvettejeannine

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#19 [url]

Mar 31 12 9:14 AM

This is disturbing, on so many levels. So much of this situation was preventable; the hospital let him die. Period. I am so sorry for your loss, and I feel your pain. I do not have children, but I do know the loss of a child is the worst pain a person can go through. When you add the fact that his death was very preventable into the equation, it's all the more painful. Your younger son is also in my thoughts; to be the one to find his brother......just horrific.

The hospital is at fault for this, without a doubt. If all of what you state is true (and I am not doubting that for a second), then someone needs to pay for this. Heads need to roll!

Also, the kid that gave your son that dose....he should also be held accountable. I hope he feels guilty. He should.

Again, I am so sorry for your loss. Even though I do not know you, my thoughts are with you and your family. Stick together, and gain strength from each other; that will get you through these dark hours.

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briton32

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#20 [url]

Mar 31 12 1:12 PM

oh my Katy I didnt realize when i first started reading this that it was your son you were referring to..My lord I am SOOOO sorry for your loss.. This is soo awful mainly because all the way around it was preventable... For one if it was the parents of his friends meds then they should have done a better job of having them secured away from sticky hands..if it was the friends then as mmt patients which obviously it was a clinic patients meds being it was in seperate bottles(and also it sounds like either more than 1pts or someone on a split dose since there were 2 different mg on the different bottles) that person if a clinic patient should have 1) known better than  to give his medicine away ESPECIALLY to someone that doesnt take pain meds and honestly should be held responsible for their part in your sons death.. Then you get to the hospital which should KNOW better than to do NOTHING to treat an opiate overdose but give IV fluids and an antinausea shot(which if it was phenerghan would have INCREASED the sedation) for an opiate naive person to be released 6hrs later with no intervention is crazy.. At the least there should have been a 24hr observation for him with the knowledge of how methadone works..  i dont know what else to say.. I am soo sorry.. I wish i had some magic words that would take away some of your pain but i dont.. I would definately be suing the hospital and looking for charges on the person who gave him the methadone.. You were violated in the worst way but ppl you should have been able to trust.. There usually is NO reason for a non medical person not to trust that the treatment the hospital is giving and the for home instructions arent whats right...  Please Please keep us updated on how things go with this.. and I pray that you turn this into a positive in ur sons memory by working on ways to educate ppl to prevent this from happening again..

Hugs and Prayers for you and your family....

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