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ptrsnake13

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Posts: 1,361 Member Since:11/01/10

#21 [url]

Aug 24 12 9:48 AM

Etaipo, don't feel down on being back on medication. It wasn't a conscience choice on your psrt. It was strictly for medicinal reasons so don't feel like you failed. You needed medication and if and when you can do without it that will be your choice. In our own minds we know why we do things and don't need to answer to others for our decisions. Just do what's good for you and everyone should take their doc addiction for the righrt reason and you'll be okay
Pete

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methabenzocet

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Posts: 47 Member Since:08/05/11

#22 [url]

Aug 24 12 11:06 AM

u think sub wd work if 1oo mdone does the job prob 80 would????do want klinik life forever thats y im wonderin

-kylea


if u dont want clinic life forever? just curious , are ur urines dirty or something? cuz u will getting take home bottles. after a while they add up. like i get 13 take homes. i only have to see the clinic 2x a month. 
im sure ur clinic offers THBs (take home bottles) . but are u using other drugs that are comming up? keeping u going 2 the clinic 6 days  a week?

~Kiki

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jules

Posts: 7 Member Since:10/15/12

#23 [url]

Oct 16 12 6:36 AM

Hello all,
   I've taken both suboxone and methadone. One yr on Suboxone and twelve yrs on methadone. I think methadone works much better for pain. Even at low doses my back pain is controlled on methadone. I'm not sure why suboxone didn't work well for my back pain. I also had a lot of side effects on suboxone that I didn't have on methadone. I had trouble sleeping and it felt "speedy" to me. I'm so much happier back on methadone. 

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tina41602

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Posts: 95 Member Since:01/08/13

#24 [url]

Mar 28 13 9:13 AM

thans for your story. I am also 52yrs. have been mmt treatment for 8 -10 years. I am like you, wondering how long I am going to be here

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LeforaGuest

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Posts: 0 Member Since:06/28/17

#25 [url]

Mar 31 13 1:28 PM

I was on methadone for pain for about a year or so when I decided to give Suboxone a try.  A friend of mine had gone from methadone to Suboxone and he was enthusiastic about it.  At the time I was on somewhere around 40-60 mg/methadone/day.  They told me that I should get my dose down to 30 mg/day which I did and then that I not take anything 48 hours prior.  Well, I didn't listen.  The night before going in there, I took 10 mg of methadone.  

The doc administered 5 mg of buprenorphine that morning.  He told me to go to lunch and come back and see him.  About 10 minutes after leaving, I felt myself break out in a cold sweat.  I went into the mall and walked around for a bit and I started feeling worse.  The music playing on the speakers sounded distorted at this point and I was feeling really strange.  I went to the bathroom and threw up and then left and headed back to the Dr.'s office.  It had been about an hour.  I walked in and told him I was feeling bad.  Well the withdrawals went from bad to worse.  I was vomiting and I was in full withdrawal.  All of my senses seemed to increase 1000% percent.  My sense of smell was off the charts and the smell of the Dr.'s office smelled horrible.  The currents of air in the office seemed to hurt my skin.  Had someone given me the option of ending it all there, I probably would have.  I remember thinking that for a million dollars, I wouldn't go through it again.  The Dr. knew it was bad and they kept asking me how long It had been since I took the methadone.  How much did I take?  He administered naloxone with a shot, which actually made things worse for a while.  My legs began shaking badly and I was crying because I was overwhelmed with bad feelings.  They gave me a paper blanket and it just sort of dissolved on my skin due to the sweating.  After about 4 hours of this I realized that I had to pick my sister up which was a drive about 1 hour away.  I hopped up off the table, staggered through the door and told the doc I'd see him tomorrow.  

They said, "Do you think you should drive?"  And I said, "I think I should, I must return my sister's car."  So I swerved on home to pick up my sister.  I had told her the whole story and that I had a bottle of methadone at home I wanted to go home and take some and never look back.  She made me promise not to because If I started this, I should at least give it a fair try.  So I went home and instead took about 6 tramadols, 8 valiums, and then she brought over some benedryl and I took some of those.  I hopped in the shower, which felt awesome by the way, and then climbed under the covers.  The tramadols REALLY helped.  I didn't feel good, but I didn't feel like dying, which was a big improvement.  She told me she'd take me the next day.

The next day I woke up and the world seemed sunnier, it was like summer happened overnight.  I could smell things I hadn't smelled in a long time and when my sister turned on the music, I got chills, but not chills in a bad way, it was because the song was getting to me.  I felt like a completely different person and was extremely happy that day.  They administered the buprenorphine that 2nd day and I started feeling better immediately.  After a total of 12 mg I decided not to take anymore.  After all, the worst part was truly behind me and everything at this point was downhill.   They tested me for signs of withdrawal.  One interesting thing was how much my hands shook.  I was yawning a lot but I didn't feel bad.  I came back one week later and had dropped 10 lbs.  My hand tremor was still there but decreasing.  

In the first month I was edgy.  I would come home and have to take some valiums to take the edge off. But also, I decided to drop down my dosage to 6 mgs.  I stayed on 6 mgs for a month then went down to 4 mgs.  Then over the next few years I eventually cut it down to nothing.  But I wasn't able to do that will the pills.  I had a pharmacy compound the medicine in the form of these dissolvable cubes that were 1 mg each.  I cut those cubes into four pieces and then again four pieces.  I only took 1/16 mg when I really needed it.

You can get off suboxone no doubt.  But it's very difficult to do it from 2 mg/day (that's the smallest size they prescribe.  You CAN break the 2 mg piece into 4 pieces but then it's too hard from that point on.  Let me just say, 0.5 mg a day is still significant.  I absolutely felt a 0.5 mg dose and I felt even the 1/16 of a milligram.  

Once you get under 0.25 mg/day, I feel it is practical to stop.  But you'll probably need some valium.  But if you have a problem with valium, then I don't know what to tell you.  I didn't use it to get high, it was only to mitigate the restlessness I felt and irritability when dropping my dose. 

With suboxone, less is more.  What I mean by that is if you are taking 12 mg's/day, you won't notice it in a very short period of time.  But if you come down on dose, you will actually feel better for a while.  Then the lethargy comes back and then you know it's time to drop the dosage again.  And again you'll feel better for a while and then after a few weeks or a month, again the lethargy.  So you keep dropping the dose as you feel comfortable (if your goal is to get off that is) and it is doable.

I wanted to get off suboxone because it made me depressed and lethargic.  Some days I felt reptilian.  And by that I mean, I just felt like I had no feelings at all, not happy, not sad, nothing.  I didn't like that.  

Methadone was better in a lot of ways.  But suboxone had advantages too.  I think over time though, I was unhappy being on suboxone.  That's why I quit it.  It wasn't anything to do with social stigma or anything like that, I just didn't feel good so that's why I quit.  

Now I just take 2 tramadol's a day.  That's not great for me, but I can function.  It just depends on what works for you and only you can make that choice.  But, whatever you do, if you go from methadone to suboxone, you should wait the 2-3 days minimum.  You don't want to go through precipitated withdrawals.  It's a real nightmare.   

 

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sapphire76

Posts: 3,678 Member Since:02/22/10

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#26 [url]

Apr 1 13 2:59 AM

@HG - I'm surprised that you can't get under a 2mg tab of Suboxone. In the UK they have 0.8, 0.6, 0.4 and 0.2mg tablets, purely for the reason that it is too big of step for someone to go from 2mg Subs to nothing.

I don't have a lot of personal experience with Subs, but my husband used it when he was tapering, and he said that he preferred it to methadone, as things seemed more "real".

Your story is really interesting, and should be mandatory reading for people switching!

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oldsoul

Posts: 4 Member Since:02/06/11

#27 [url]

Apr 3 13 5:57 PM

I haven't posted in a long time but do read the forum pretty regularly.  I feel that there's a slight (and maybe it's just my defensiveness) bias against subxone/subutex on the forum which bothers me.  I've been taking bup (switched from suboxone to subutex years ago) since about a month after it was initially approved to treat opioid addiction back in late 2002.  I was an IV heroin user on and off for over 25 years, I've been on MMT 3 - 4 different times and have been in any number of abstinence based treatment programs and tried the whole AA/NA thing for years on and off as well- but was never able to stay off opiates for long with either of those.  I think I just wasn't ready- at least as far as the times I was on MMT.  I found that for me, bup has worked best.  This is by far the longest period of my life I've been able to stay off heroin but it could be just that I'm getting older, too and I just feel that part of my life's over- not to the point where I'd be willing to come of subutex, though.  I've personally never experienced any of the negative effects that I've heard people complain about, other than constipation, which I also had on MMT and deal with through diet.  I've been on the same dose, 8mg, for about a decade.  I have been diagnosed with depression in the past and it seems to help with that; I've never taken any anti-depressants since I started taking bup.  So for me, it's been a miracle medication.

I guess I'd just like to see people be open minded.  I currently work as a counselor in a traditional abstinence based treatment program- I think we help a lot of people.  I'm not shy about telling clients addicted to opiates who've tried 'traditional' abstinence based treatment a couple of times and relapsed that they might be better off to seek MAT.  I've also worked as a counselor in an MMT program and I felt I helped people there as well.

My belief, based both on personal experience and what the evidence shows is that in general, it's wise for people to start off trying bup for the simple reason that one doesn't have to deal with the whole clinic issue.  If it doesn't work, move on to MMT.  But I think it's a fallacy to say that bup doesn't work for long term IV heroin users.  I'm far from the only long term IV heroin user I know who's been helped through bup.  And as more research on bup's use is coming out, it's showing more and more that it can be an effective treatment even for those with a long history of IV opioid use.

I have a good understanding of the brain disease of addiction.  I also think people's motivation is important- I believe that's why MMT didn't really work for me the times I tried it.  I thought i was really motivated to stop, but I wasn't.  Once I truly developed the motivation, bup did the job.  I think we have to remember that neither MMT nor bup is a miracle cure.  One still has to have a really strong desire to change for either to work.

OldSoul

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wayovermyhead

Posts: 4,350 Member Since:07/16/11

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#28 [url]

Apr 4 13 12:35 AM

Hello Oldsoul and welcome back around the forum.  I am not sure where you have seen any bias except the lack of patients joining the sight to discuss bupe etc...we do have a few active bupe members but find they pop in and out and are usually members n suboxforum.......but when they pop in we all get very involved in their MAT and I have not seen any propensity to talk bupe down to them etc....unless they themselves are having issues and we might support them in the fact of a few of us have tried and failed at bupe. 

I have not heard anyone (since my membership) say that heroin users do not benefit from bupe as I would disagree with such as I do know heroin users on this forum who did well on bupe.  I think because bupe patients tend to go to bupe specific forums it appears we do not support it but we would and do when we actually have someone actively wanting to discuss it.  Also the last few we had on were detoxing off bupe as it had failed for them and we did try to explain that maybe the issue could be they might should try methadone instead of nothing. 

One stance that might have appeared bias is when we have shared some of our experiences with bupe as some of us required higher dosing methadone being because the bupe does not usually work as well for patients that need more than 60 to 100 milligrams of methadone (even bupe doctors and forums agree with this). So maybe us sharing this known fact might appear we are urging them against bupe etc...but all in all I know for myself and may of the patients on here enjoy the occassional bupe member we get as we are mostly on methadone and like to hear the prospective on bupe.  So please join in with us and tell us about your experience....maybe you will bring back or bring out some of our bupe members......

I like you have worked in abstinence based treatment and also been in treatment of that matter many times  Jeez...I wish I would have met a counselor like you that would have shared that with me way before finally a few years back in a detox a nurse went out on a secretive limb and slipped me the MMT info as she felt it might be best for me with my history but she made it clear it could not be exposed she suggested anything like that.  Thank God she did cuz she may have saved my life.

I was only on bupe many years ago in an experimental stage at a detox in Daytona Beach and it worked well in a detox setting for sure.

FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
Wishing You Best In Love & Life 
wayovermyhead

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sapphire76

Posts: 3,678 Member Since:02/22/10

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#29 [url]

Apr 4 13 4:31 AM

I don't think there's any kind of bias? <confused>
 
We have several regular posters doing well on Subs don't we?
 
I have not much personal experience, but my husband preferred it to methadone, as I stated.

On a different note, how do you find reconciling working in an abstinence based recovery center with being on MAR personally? I think I might find it difficult sometimes.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



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zac talbott

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Posts: 745 Member Since:03/02/13

#30 [url]

Apr 24 13 12:39 PM

There was an interesting entry on the AboutMethadone.org site about Methadone vs. Suboxone a few months back... I'll post it here, it's worth checking out on this subject. 

Here's the link:
Apples for Oranges?: Switching from Methadone to Suboxone



zt

Zac Talbott | Director & Patient Advocate

Together we can make a difference!

Visit NAMA Recovery's We Speak Methadone (and buprenorphine) Forums
and/or the Methadone & Buprenorphine Discussion group on Facebook

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HenryHenry

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Posts: 34 Member Since:11/13/14

#31 [url]

Nov 17 14 6:28 PM

zac talbott wrote:
There was an interesting entry on the AboutMethadone.org site about Methadone vs. Suboxone a few months back... I'll post it here, it's worth checking out on this subject. Here's the link:
Apples for Oranges?: Switching from Methadone to Suboxone



zt

that's what i am talking about! whew! thank you for this information :)

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