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mramell

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Dec 28 15 11:35 AM

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I've been reading a lot about the effects of this substance and how it can help with addiction and opiate withdraw. Has anyone tried it and have any opinions about kratom? So far as far as I can see it's perfectly legal in all 50 states and easily obtainable.

I've got to admit that I got myself back in the hole of addiction again, this time with pills, not needles and all the crap that goes with it.
I've been going through withdraw using both gabapentin and some muscle relaxers, both prescribed by the VA to me.
Everything I've read about kratom it's great for pain relief and will even give you that nice warm fuzzy feeling, but like everything online beware of outrageous claims. I tend to trust certain sources and one is https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=37321

Any thoughts on the topic of kratom?
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mramell

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Dec 29 15 11:41 AM

Seems to work well..

Yesterday I went to the local headshop and purchased about 30g of store bought kratom and mixed up about 6g in some grapefruit juice and downed it. It's nasty tasting, but definitely not worse than methadone liquid which is an acquired taste of its own as you well know.
Results? Well I did get a pretty nice warm fuzzy buzz, but more importantly I woke up with very little withdrawal symptoms. I have to think that this is going to work. I downed another 4.5g this morning and now at 2:30pm I'm feeling fine.
I have no idea if its good enough to overcome years of methadone being I haven't taken methadone for several years, but if I were a gambling man I'd take that bet and bite the bullet to swallow a bunch of kratom to see how it went.

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thelung

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Dec 29 15 3:31 PM

I've personally used Kratom several times for opiate withdrawal and it actually worked pretty well for me. If the need arises again, I'll definitely give it another go.

thelung

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mramell

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Dec 29 15 4:19 PM

Thanks lung.. It's 7pm now and since the slight feeling of withdraw this morning I have felt fine all day other than my hands shaking a bit, but that could be from being a hardcore coffee fiend.
I have to say that I'm truly amazed by this. Three days ago I was swallowing fentynal and thought my world had come crashing down. Years ago my addiction drove me to feeling suicidal and attempts to leaving my family behind to travel to other states to get in treatment for 10 years. Now I can make a trip less than 3 miles and legally buy kratom over the counter and within less than an hour feel almost normal for the price of a few shots of dope.
I'm so impressed that we're actually considering becoming distributors of kratom for purposes of helping others get through the hard part of withdrawal. (By the way I looked up withdraw vs withdrawal. Withdraw is the verb form, withdrawal is the noun.
Example: I want to withdraw from heroin, but the hard part is the actual withdrawal.) Sorry, had to play grammar Nazi for just one moment.
I just wish my better half would stop telling me it only works because she prayed that it would, but I'll let her have that bit of self satisfaction. She's a remarkable woman so I won't argue with her on that point.

Last Edited By: mramell Dec 29 15 4:22 PM. Edited 1 time.

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thelung

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Dec 29 15 4:31 PM

mramell wrote:
Thanks lung.. It's 7pm now and since the slight feeling of withdraw this morning I have felt fine all day other than my hands shaking a bit, but that could be from being a hardcore coffee fiend.
I have to say that I'm truly amazed by this. Three days ago I was swallowing fentynal and thought my world had come crashing down. Years ago my addiction drove me to feeling suicidal and attempts to leaving my family behind to travel to other states to get in treatment for 10 years. Now I can make a trip less than 3 miles and legally buy kratom over the counter and within less than an hour feel almost normal for the price of a few shots of dope.
I'm so impressed that we're actually considering becoming distributors of kratom for purposes of helping others get through the hard part of withdrawal. (By the way I looked up withdraw vs withdrawal. Withdraw is the verb form, withdrawal is the noun.
Example: I want to withdraw from heroin, but the hard part is the actual withdrawal.) Sorry, had to play grammar Nazi for just one moment.
I just wish my better half would stop telling me it only works because she prayed that it would, but I'll let her have that bit of self satisfaction. She's a remarkable woman so I won't argue with her on that point.

I'm happy for you mramell!  Kratom is the way to go for sure.  I always tell people to try it for w/d.  Most are skeptical and I can understand why....but all you need to do is try it once and you'll know you've found a great thing.

thelung

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mramell

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Dec 29 15 9:35 PM

It really makes me wonder how I could have missed this 15 years ago. I was probably on every methadone and withdrawal site online back then and have zero memory of it. Then again there's a lot of things I don't remember from back then including my many usernames and gazillion passwords. Heck, I don't even remember where I put my dentures 5 seconds ago.

Wait...mouth..duh!

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sapphire76

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#6 [url]

Dec 30 15 6:19 AM

Although Kratom is not an opiate, it does act on the opiate receptors. For this reason plenty of people can find themselves developing an addiction with the Kratom, instead, or as well as, whatever they initially intended to come off.

What worries me most about your situation is you were not stable prior to commencing the detox. Tapers usually have a much better success rate when people start them when they're in a position of stability. If yo start adding in different mind altering substances when you're not really stable in the first place, and have been using recently, it just sounds a little bit like a recipe for disaster to me.

Fair enough if you want to use the Kratom, but better to get stable with some good time away from all drugs under your belt, on something like methadone or Subs, and then try to reduce and use the Kratom to aid the last little bit.

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mramell

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Dec 30 15 12:36 PM

Points taken

Here's the thing Sapphire, I've been in treatment before lots of times and have no desire to do it again. I'm pretty headstrong and probably a bit cocky being confident that I can handle my own detox as good if not better than someone with a 6 month certificate of completion of being a drug counselor. The last one I put up with for 3-4 years was a qualified prison guard, but really didn't know turd about drug rehab and use and had the personality of rusty barbed wire overgrown with poison ivy. I further have no intentions of letting anyone else in the medical community know about my struggles with opiates. I've been doing this a long time. I've had success and I've had failures, but the bottom line is trust and respect and I simply don't trust nor respect many people in the drug game so I trust my own insticts. I pretty much knew what I was getting into and was ready to go back to rehab as a fall back plan, but it was really low on my priority list with the lack of trust I have with those people. I was really shit on several times by clinics and the last time I walked away from methadone I did it on my own terms and walked out the door of the place at zero milligrams despite them continually pushing me to increase my dosage simply because I was a paycheck for them. I was told point blank that I was their most profitable patient. I fought tooth and nail for every decrease in my dose,but I stayed with it going from 170mg a day down to zero over a two year period. I had my takeout taken away because my wife left me and for no other reason. The place was petty and punitive at best so no..I have no desire to go through it again if I can do this on my own.
It's still always an option, but I know how to take measurements and keep records and the bottom line is that is just what clinics do and toss in a lot of pop psychology along with higher power mumbojumbo to boot.
If I fail I fail, but at least I get to own my failures. In the clinic they pass the buck and you know that.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sentiment and concern, but I will always care more about my well being than any clinic will ever care.

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mramell

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Dec 30 15 1:57 PM

Sapphire, I hope you don't think I'm against treatment because I'm not. I made it back out of the pit of needles and heroin thanks to treatment, but I did have a belly full of certain types of self serving clinic employees who seemed to think that everyone in treatment deserves to be treated like a child regardless of progress or time in treatment. I just don't want to go through the games again for very personal reasons. I might also add that I'm in the most stable relationship of my life with a very loving and caring person who I have a great deal of respect.

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mramell

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Jan 3 16 9:59 AM

Update

So far so good. It's been about a week with no real serious side effects other than a bit of jitteriness drinking coffee with kratom (not mixing them). I'm still having symptoms of wd in the morning, but it's minor compared to plain CT and I don't find myself wanting more and more kratom the way certain news organizations make it out to be. The NYT has written a few hit pieces, but journalistic entegrity went the way of the dinosours at the NYT anyway.. http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/?action=click&contentCollection&region=TopBar&WT.nav=searchWidget&module=SearchSubmit&pgtype=Homepage#/kratom

I was wrong about the legality in all 50 states.. a handful of states either ban or have partial bans in place. http://speciosa.org/kratom-legality-map/ All of them seem to leave a bit of wiggle room though and in court they could all be beaten with a legal stick by a competant attorney. Before using or buying kratom check with an attorney I guess, but on the other hand it's no more illegal than going out to score a dime bag of heroin.. 
Bottom line is it seems to be working well for me and I'm definately using a digital scale and keeping track of how much I use every single time..  In no way am I suggesting anyone drop going to treatment in favor of home remedies, but if you're in a clinic with constant problems and have to live with threats of being kicked out over petty nonsense...well you decide.. I had to put up with those issues in spades so treatment is my last resort.

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sapphire76

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#10 [url]

Jan 8 16 8:25 AM

I'm glad you're doing well. I am not a fan of Kratom, as have seen it cause more problems than it solves. If it works for you though, I'm pleased.

I just wouldn't want people to get the impression that they can suddenly switch to Kratom and it'll be like a magic bullet to get off methadone. Which even if you do get off, if you've not dealt with your issues that led you to using in the first place, you're likely just to relapse. ( I don't mean YOU, I mean in general).

I think what with all the fuss lately about legal cannabis and 'legal highs' or New Psychoactive Substances, that there's going to be a blanket law soon that will encompass things like Kratom, and make them illegal everywhere.

Law enforcement is starting to think that some states making marijuana legal is part of what's fed this heroin epidemic, as cartels are trying to make up lost cannabis revenue by introducing more people to cheap heroin. Not sure how accurate that is, but I can imagine that Mr Cartel probably isn't very happy about his loss of profit after legalisation in some states.

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ltomczak

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Jan 12 17 9:02 AM

Kratom - Species?

Ugh, just deleted my post -

I'm also curious about anyone's experience with Kratom. Is anyone familiar with the various species of Kratom? From my VERY limited research and understanding, there are several varities available. Some are better for pain control while others are better for withadrawal symptoms.

I am currently trying to taper from 1-2 mgs. I know from personal experience that this is extremely difficult for me when I get to this point.

Unfortunately the horrid, highly regulated state of IL is about to criminalize Kratom so finding a good source is difficult.

I would love to also use it for pain control, but am going to heed the warnings of possible dependance. I will stick to curcumin to try and keep the pain levels tolerable.

Any insights are appreciated!

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