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sapphire76

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#21 [url]

Jul 11 13 5:12 AM

@Ninny - sleeping for that long is not "normal", so either there is something that your doctor has missed, or you might have some depression problems?

If your dose is not the problem, you can't go through life sleeping it away!!

Depression can give you massive lack of motivation problems and make you want to sleep all the time.

I would also add that Eman is right and that the more you sleep, the worse it gets, so you need to try to fight the urges.

What is your current dose? Do you think that is what is making you sleepy?

I have to say though, that before I started losing weight I had zero motivation, I wanted to do literally nothing. But I realised that I was just going to get more and more overweight and unhealthy so I forced myself to do something about it.

As I started gentle exercise my motivation levels increased and increased again as I increased the level if exercise that I did.

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ninny111

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#22 [url]

Jul 11 13 10:29 PM

Elephantman & Sapphire....First of all thank you both for your help and time!! The answer to your question about  being off of drugs...YES I quit for 12 years and I quit on my own cold turkey without methadone or anything.  My mom died and I blamed myself that is what caused the relapse. I just wanted to not feel anything for a while. Now that I have dealt with that I am ready to move on to the next step in my life. I am just looking for some helpful and beneficial advice to help me succeed because I have never been on methadone before so therefore I have never dosed off of it before. I just want to know what I should expect. I am down to 82 mg from 95 mg (-1 mg every other day) and I have actually managed to stay awake a little longer today. Hopefully tomorrow a little longer.
Thank you for your words of wisdom I do appreciate your time and thoughts. My plans for when I get off...well I want to get a job once I get my sleeping routine back to normal. I also want to do something to help other people that have problems with addiction. In elementary school I was actually the president of this just say no to drugs club we had. It is crazy thinking about that now. I have been on the inside of drug addiction and I feel the need to try to do something. I just don't know what yet. Any advice there? I just need some direction.
Thanks again...oh yeah I am probably the farthest from depressed I have ever been in my life. I am in a very good place with myself, my family, and everyone that matters to me. I have a great support system!!


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tinaet2001

Posts: 2 Member Since:07/19/13

#23 [url]

Jul 19 13 3:02 AM

Good for you to get back on track.  I have been at my clinic for 12 years this month.  When we all started out back then it was a new clinic and everyone (the people I hung around with anyway) just wanted to get as high a dose as possible.  And we are all still there.  The price has gone from $135 to $400 per month, and it is hard to know if I can keep paying.  The recession has really affected us up here and I ran out of unemployment last January.  So I am very worried about that situation............  

Stay low, go down and go to your groups and God willing, you can be clean again.  Good Luck!

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ninny111

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#24 [url]

Jul 19 13 5:09 AM

Good for you to get back on track.  I have been at my clinic for 12 years this month.  When we all started out back then it was a new clinic and everyone (the people I hung around with anyway) just wanted to get as high a dose as possible.  And we are all still there.  The price has gone from $135 to $400 per month, and it is hard to know if I can keep paying.  The recession has really affected us up here and I ran out of unemployment last January.  So I am very worried about that situation............  
Stay low, go down and go to your groups and God willing, you can be clean again.  Good Luck!

-tinaet2001


Thanks for the advice!! Someone at my clinic told me just remember that whatever dose you go up to...it will take you that much longer to come back down. Now I know what they were saying. It is no joke coming down. Group helps me a lot!! I even added another group per week to my schedule.
When I first got up to 95 mg I did think about going higher but then I did the math and came to the conclusion that 95 was high enough.
I hope you find a solution to your situation. I know it can be hard and stressful especially being at the 12 year mark. I feel for ya'. I know of some people at my clinic that are in that very same boat...and they are extremely stressing out over it. I can kind of relate cause I am not working so my boyfriend is footing my bill and that is costing him 900 bucks a month. That is a house payment and almost a car payment. I know it sounds crazy when I tell someone that I can barely afford methadone...cause then they ask well how did you two afford your drug habit because it was at least 10x more. Then I just look at them like they would never understand...they are usually people like my family or the other straight laced types. I will never miss that lifestyle!! I can't wait till I am back on track. I miss me. I didn't go around my family for 3 whole years once because I was so high...and those are years I can't get back. I hate myself for that...that is why I need to get my life back.

Sorry I went on and on! I hope that you are doing well with your treatment! I hope that you find your solution to your situation. Think positive. God bless.

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wayovermyhead

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#25 [url]

Jul 20 13 8:12 AM

Stay low, go down and go to your groups and God willing, you can be clean again.  Good Luck!

-tinaet2001

Thanks for the advice!! Someone at my clinic told me just remember that whatever dose you go up to...it will take you that much longer to come back down. Now I know what they were saying. It is no joke coming down. Group helps me a lot!! I even added another group per week to my schedule.
When I first got up to 95 mg I did think about going higher but then I did the math and came to the conclusion that 95 was high enough.

-ninny111

There is no evidence to the fact it is "harder" to  come off 200 (high dose) as 60 milligrams (low dose)...If you do a slow taper/detox it might take a little longer but not much as believe it or not the milligrams from whatever down to 60 milligrams can happen as quick as daily and with very minimal discomforts.....This being said "keeping low on your dose" or "staying low as possible" has very little to gain (maybe a shorter taper) but yet can be detrimental and harmful as to keep a person from stabilizing or enjoying the benefits of optimal dosing.  Very seldom do you even hear clinic staff stand firm on this fallacy...

I understand why people want/tend to believe this as it seems to make sense or be likely but given documented stories and evidence, people begin to run into slight discomforts at 40/60 milligrams and then continue more in severity downward to the last 10 to 20 milligrams being where one begins feeling the "real uncomfortable discomforts"....Like I said I understand and see reason in believing this fallacy as it would seem to "make sense" but because of the ramifications of "not stabilizing nor being on optimal dosing", I feel it is necessary to "speak up" when I hear this being said.  I mean no harm personally but as admin and moderator it is important to keep the facts as close to truthful and helpful as I can.   I hope there is no offended parties here.

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the elephantman

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#26 [url]

Jul 20 13 10:07 PM

There is no evidence to the fact it is "harder" to  come off 200 (high dose) as 60 milligrams (low dose)...If you do a slow taper/detox it might take a little longer but not much as believe it or not the milligrams from whatever down to 60 milligrams can happen as quick as daily and with very minimal discomforts.....This being said "keeping low on your dose" or "staying low as possible" has very little to gain (maybe a shorter taper) but yet can be detrimental and harmful as to keep a person from stabilizing or enjoying the benefits of optimal dosing.  Very seldom do you even hear clinic staff stand firm on this fallacy...
I understand why people want/tend to believe this as it seems to make sense or be likely but given documented stories and evidence, people begin to run into slight discomforts at 40/60 milligrams and then continue more in severity downward to the last 10 to 20 milligrams being where one begins feeling the "real uncomfortable discomforts"....Like I said I understand and see reason in believing this fallacy as it would seem to "make sense" but because of the ramifications of "not stabilizing nor being on optimal dosing", I feel it is necessary to "speak up" when I hear this being said.  I mean no harm personally but as admin and moderator it is important to keep the facts as close to truthful and helpful as I can.   I hope there is no offended parties here.

-wayovermyhead

I second this!! Personally, i believe you are gonna suffer the same dreaded withdrawal whether your coming off 120mg's or 10mg's. Its inevitable, especially if you've been on maintenance. Why sacrifice being optimally dosed and getting the full benefits of the medication?

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sapphire76

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#27 [url]

Jul 21 13 3:25 AM

I hate when people say "oh, don't go up too high, it'll be more difficult to come off".

That is complete BS. It may take a little longer time wise to taper from a higher dose, but more difficult? Not at all.

What is even the point of being on MMT if you're not going to be optimally dosed?!

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wayovermyhead

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#28 [url]

Jul 21 13 4:24 PM

What is even the point of being on MMT if you're not going to be optimally dosed?!

-sapphire76

It is terrible to hear that the clinics keep low doses....Trust me tho their intentions is not to make it easier for us to detox off of MMT....If there were any truth to this than they would be making a point to use this excuse verbally to us.  They just are afraid we might get some kind of pleasurable high out if the extra milligrams etc...or we are getting away with something etc....

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sapphire76

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#29 [url]

Jul 22 13 4:29 AM

              
They just are afraid we might get some kind of pleasurable high out if the extra milligrams etc...or we are getting away with something etc....

-wayovermyhead

I think that you're exactly right, and that's what it boils down to at the end of the day.

They are worried that if a patient's dose is what they deem as "high", that the patient must be getting some kind of pleasure out of it, and they just will not allow anyone getting high on their watch!

Some kind of national qualification is what is needed for anyone that wants to work in a MMT clinic. SO that everyone is equally trained, and they know that just because some people need higher doses than others, it doesn't mean they are getting "high" from their dose.

A lot of the problem, I think, is that treatment staff see patient 1 on 50mg/day doing fine, and then patient 2 on 120mg who says he is not doing well.

They cannot comprehend that if patient 1 is fine on 50mg, why is patient 2 not fine on more than twice the dose.

They add 2 and 2 and come up with 67 and conclude that patient 2 must be trying to get "high" off his dose.

So much more education is needed for people working in MMT clinics. It is very sad that most of us have forgotten more about MMT than many clinic professionals will ever know.

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wayovermyhead

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#30 [url]

Jul 22 13 5:56 PM

You know all too often I see patients keeping their own doses low...They use other drugs and want to get high on them...they want to continue taking benzo's prescribed or un-prescribed....they are under the illusion that they need to maintain on the lowest dose possible to ever be able to get off....they have family or loved ones piping in on the dosages they agree or disagree on....This is just another area that is not given consideration to by staff or law/rule makers, accrediting agencies, advocates etc.....All the above scenarios do exist and they make a non verbal impact on why low dosing is becoming so widespread/across the board and the need for higher dosages are being overlooked and/or downright vetoed. 

I have not had time to read the draft in it's entirety...from what I have seen there are not many differences from the regulations at the current time but AT Forum has published an article in their newsletter about them and I intend to post as a new thread here in a minute.  I am hoping cherbear and.or mythoughts and/or robinette and/or zac, whippy and/or anyone working in the profession...might tell me if they are aware of any differences bad or good in our favor or not etc....

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ninny111

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#31 [url]

Jul 23 13 3:29 AM

 Someone at my clinic told me just remember that whatever dose you go up to...it will take you that much longer to come back down.


This was advice from a fellow patient that had been going there for several years that was on 140 mg...Not my advice! All that I meant was that I can see why they would have said that...because they have been there since the clinic opened up, so 12 - 13 years.

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the elephantman

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#32 [url]

Jul 23 13 4:43 AM

@ninny: Yes that can be true in some cases and is completely logical. The higher the dose the longer the taper will be. BUT it will NOT be any more difficult the higher the dose.

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sapphire76

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#33 [url]

Jul 23 13 7:09 AM

Yes, logic dictates that a higher dose will take longer to taper down from, but more difficult? Certainly not.

No point being stuck unhappy on a low dose because you're worried about coming off.

If you don't get optimally dosed, you do not get all the benefits that MMT has to offer.

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wayovermyhead

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#34 [url]

Jul 23 13 8:24 AM

This was advice from a fellow patient that had been going there for several years that was on 140 mg...Not my advice! All that I meant was that I can see why they would have said that...because they have been there since the clinic opened up, so 12 - 13 years.-ninny111

I really was not meaning to offend anyone my point was to hopefully put to rest the "rumor" (as so evidenced/said by you with regards to patients tend to spread more than staff which I pointed out above also).  As a moderator of what most consider the "most effective and informative" forum (please excuse if that seems arrogant) on MMT/MAT issues, I am often faced with this task.  I am fairly new at moderating and I am always trying to find ways to say things eloquently and not offensively.... I do not always succeed in this especially when  I am hurried on the post.

I did understand you had been told this and my mission was to put stop to you or anyone believing this so as I often do I probably went overboard with my explanation in attempts to put rise to how many people can and are affected by rumors like this and put end to any belief one might have in it.  I appreciate all the members here and I hope everyone understands that while not everyone must oppose fallacies and untruths regarding MMT/MAT as a moderator It is my job to....I never mean to offend tho....Sorry if it appeared I did.


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ninny111

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#35 [url]

Jul 24 13 1:48 AM

wayovermyhead....Please be aware that the farthest from my intentions would be stirring the rumor mill...as these were personal experiences of mine and not a rumor. I was told this by someone that goes to the same clinic as me. So sorry to offend you or anyone else.

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ninny111

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#36 [url]

Jul 24 13 1:54 AM


Stay low, go down and go to your groups and God willing, you can be clean again.  Good Luck!

-tinaet2001

I am on  76 mg today and so far I feel pretty well. No major complaints. I have been sleeping less and this is a good thing!! I also added a new group to my weekly schedule "Celebrate Recovery" and I love it so far. Thank you for the well wishes I appreciate that!!

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sapphire76

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#37 [url]

Jul 24 13 5:10 AM

@Ninny - me too, I didn't mean to offend you either. Just trying to stamp out this myth of higher doses being more difficult to get off.

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wayovermyhead

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#38 [url]

Jul 24 13 8:54 AM

wayovermyhead....Please be aware that the farthest from my intentions would be stirring the rumor mill...as these were personal experiences of mine and not a rumor. I was told this by someone that goes to the same clinic as me. So sorry to offend you or anyone else.-ninny111

I still feel like we are not on the same page...I was commenting on the fact you said  patients in line told you or you overheard to not go up to a higher dose from your initial post (not personal experience) i.e.  At the clinic while standing in line I heard so many different stories from different people and it was there that I decided that I didn't want to go up to a very high dose because I didn't want to be there that long.  When I told my goals to some of my friends that go to the clinic also they just laughed and said "good luck with that, I thought I wouldn't  be going here for very long either."  and because what you had heard in line is why you decided to stay on low dose as somewhere in another post in this thread you mentioned being told it would take you longer to get off... I was apologizing in my last post not accusing you of spreading rumors (i.e. stirring the rumor mill)....I was not even thinking you of spreading rumors.  I had accused people in line and from your clinic as spreading rumors.  Once again sorry for the misunderstanding (as I am hoping this is all this is)....


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ninny111

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#39 [url]

Jul 24 13 9:43 AM

I have heard many stories from the people standing in line and although I listened to what they had to say my decision to only go up to 95 mg was my decision. My counselor told me that I could go up higher if I wanted to but I chose to stay at 95. Then about 2 months (+/-) I decided that I was ready to start dosing down. So I am always looking for good advice to help me with my decision to dose down and eventually dose out. I still want to continue with some sort of counseling, group therapy, N/A etc. ...anything to help me stay clean. I haven't used since May 22, 2012. I started the methadone clinic on April 17, 2013. I don't even know why I used on 5/22/12...I found some hidden stash that I had forgotten about and instead of tossing it, like an idiot, I decided to use it. I understand now how easy that happens in the early stages of recovery. As for my comment about me not wanting to be there that long...I really had decided that before I even started the clinic but my mind was pretty much made up after talking to the other patients and hearing their stories, advice and opinions. In my heart though I know that I can live a clean life and not go back to the lifestyle. I just need to find someone that can give me some good advice that won't judge me...someone that has been an addict and is now living a drug free life. In one of the groups I go to at the clinic there is a speaker coming to do a presentation. He is a former addict that is now a minister at a church. I plan to attend his seminar or presentation whenever they decide on the date. hopefully I will be able to take away something from his experiences. 

I do understand what you and anyone is saying about rumors and how easy they are to spread really. What I meant was that I had asked someone in line about what mg I should go up to and they told me that whatever dose you go up to it will take you that much longer to come back down". Which yes that is logical.    I never meant for anyone to think that I meant that it would be any harder. That is not what was said to me. Thank you for getting everything straightened out...and again I am sorry if I caused any problems or anything I don't want to be "that person". Hope you have a nice day.

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wayovermyhead

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#40 [url]

Jul 24 13 9:59 AM

Thank you for responding back so quickly....I was worried that I had offended you and I had not meant to....I think your plan sounds like a good one and I do believe that many people have a good chance off MMT after getting some time under the belt (2 years is often the suggested marker by clinicians that specialize in recovery/repairing time)....If I were younger and did not have over 30 years of drug use, relapses etc.....I would be one trying to do the same.  Thanks for understanding that sometimes in posts we lose the emotion and meanings and they can get misunderstood....

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